Ep 98: How the 2008 Recession Propelled Lindsey Schwartz into Entrepreneurship

    Just as I told you last week, I am re-running some of the episodes that we've done in the past with people who were affected in one way or another by the 2008 recession. I think with everything that we're going with what seems like a looming recession and a lot of people are being laid off or are afraid of being laid off, I really wanted to take this time to show you how sometimes something that seems very scary can actually be the blessing that you need.
    This week I am resharing my episode with the amazing Lindsey Schwartz because what happened with Lindsey is she didn't end up getting fired early off and she didn't actually quit.
    Lindsey started out like many people pursuing a career in the corporate world. Even though she was doing great at her job, it was during the 2008 recession that she realized this wasn't a stable path. She then decided to enter entrepreneurship part-time through a company called Isagenix, a network marketing company which she still currently works with.
    From that company, she then created Powerhouse Women, an online community, a yearly event, a book, and a podcast. (Whew!). After seeing numerous women in her life stop short of pursuing their own entrepreneurial dreams because of fear and self-doubt, she saw the need for more honest conversations about the ups and downs of entrepreneurship in order to show women that they don't have to have it all together to get started.
    What I love the most about Lindsey's story is that she sets an example for her community. She didn't wait around for a huge social media following or to have some kind of star-backing, she wrote a book because she wanted to write a book and became a best-seller. She created an event because she saw a need and now it's growing year after year! If you take away one single message from Lindsey's story, let it be this: just start. Whatever it is that you want to do, just start doing it. You never know where that path may lead!
 Here is what we chat about in this episode:
  • How no one actually knows what they're doing and you don't have to do it alone.
  • How fulfillment comes from giving yourself time and space to do the things you want to do.
  • Why it's important to think about the limitations you're arguing for.
  • And so much more!
Where to find Lindsey: Resources Mentioned: Follow along for more:
    Show Transcript:
    Hi friends. Welcome back to another episode. I am so happy to have you here. Before we jump in, let me just tell you that we are doing our monthly free group coaching calls. They are on the last Wednesday of every month. They change in time so that we can accommodate all time zones. But I will send out the information to my email list. So if you want to just jump on a zoom call and talk about your situation and ask whatever questions you have or just listen to what other people are going through. Sometimes it helps to see other people be coached because we all have the same fears and doubts. Make sure you're on my email list. You can sign up at quitter club.com/coaching and we will do those free zoom coaching calls once a month. And I realized I didn't tell you our book for me in the last episode.
    I apologize. So in may we are going to review James Clear's Atomic Habits. We've done a bunch of books that were a little bit more about mindset and now we're going to go into more practical tools like how to start setting goals and achieving them. How to really get some work done maybe when you don't have as much time. So the first book is going to be James Clear's atomic habits and I will review that at the end of the month. Now with that out of the way, let's jump into this week's episode. Just as I told you last week, I am re-running some of the episodes that we've done in the past with people who were affected in one way or another by the 2008 recession. I think with everything that we're going with what seems like a looming recession and a lot of people are being laid off or are afraid of being laid off, I really wanted to take this time to show you how sometimes something that seems very scary can actually be the blessing that you need.
    It might be the push that you need to go after the thing that you want. And I'm trying to highlight people that had different varying circumstances in 2008 so as I said we had Janelle Copeland on and she talked about what it was like to be laid off with her husband and have to go through that hardship of not being able to find a job and how that led to the start of their business. The Cake Mamas last week, we re-listened to the episode with Paula Pant and Paula made the decision to quit in 2008 even though everyone thought she was crazy and she went on to build an empire and has created this incredible career and business for herself. And then this week I am resharing my episode with the amazing Lindsey Schwartz because what happened with Lindsey is she didn't end up getting fired early off and she didn't actually quit.
    But I think what happened to her in 2008 is happening to a lot of people right now. It really made her realize that there is no such thing as security and there is no safety and what we think this safe path of the traditional corporate career can be taken away from you in a minute. And when she saw that in 2008, that is what sparked her to start her entrepreneurial journey as a side hustle. And I think a lot of people feel exactly the way that Lindsey did then. And I think a lot of people really do want to start their career. And I love the way that Lindsey did it as a side hustle. Maybe this makes sense. Maybe it's right now looking for opportunities where you can start something on the side when it is the easiest time to do that with the internet.
    And so maybe now that you are quarantined at home, you have more time because you're not commuting back and forth. You can get up a little earlier, stay up a little late and you can build a business on the side. And we'll talk all about how Lindsey did this, how this started her into her entrepreneurial journey and then how it took a couple of years before she fully went all in. And she has gone on to create this incredible business in powerhouse women. And we'll talk all about it in the episode. But I want you guys to follow Lindsey on Instagram because I think that she is really such an exceptional leader and as she's showing how to show up in this time and she is leading her community and she is building community and she's continuing with her business and she's creating a space for other female entrepreneurs and she's doing it in such a beautiful way that we can all learn a lot of lessons from. And so if you like this episode, please reach out to Lindsey and let her know. I'm sure that she would appreciate that. And also just follow her for examples of how to build businesses and how to create community and how to be there when maybe you don't even know what you want to say or what you should say, but just holding space for people. So that they have a loving and safe space to show up to to find her on Instagram. And without further ado, let's jump in and listen to this episode.
    Now onto the episode today, I am so excited to have Lindsey Schwartz on the show. Lindsey started out her career in the corporate world. Like many of us, and she was doing great in sales, but during the recession she really realized that there isn't stability in that kind of a world and she decided to enter entrepreneurship part time through a company called Isagenix. Many of you may have heard of it. It is a network marketing company and I love that we have this discussion because I know there are a lot of strong feelings around network marketing, but I think oftentimes we overlook the benefits that it can have, which are helping people really break into entrepreneurship, which can feel really overwhelming and daunting to do on your own. And so she started that company and she still has that, but what has come from that is what I really wanted her on this show for. She is a wellness entrepreneur and now bestselling author of Powerhouse Women, how to get out of your own way, fulfill your unique purpose, and live a powerful life.
    After seeing numerous women in her life stop short of pursuing their own entrepreneurial dreams because of fear and self doubt, she saw the need for more honest conversations about the ups and downs of entrepreneurship in order to show women that they don't have to have it all together. To get started from there, the powerhouse woman community, an annual event, and now a podcast where mourn and she operates on the motto that we're not meant to do business or life alone here, I love her message and I love that she has set an example. She didn't wait for a huge social media following or to have some kind of star backing. She wrote a book because she wanted to write a book and became a bestseller. She started an event because she saw a need and she's now grown that event year after a year, and she is growing this incredible community.
    It's become its own amazing business for her, and I think we can learn a lot from her. So without further ado, let's jump in and talk to Lindsey.
    Goli: Hi Lindsey. Thank you so much for joining me today.
    Lindsey: Oh my goodness. I'm so excited to be here. Thanks so much.
    Goli: I am so excited to have you and I can't wait to jump into the many amazing things you're doing. I'm so excited to talk about all the powerhouse woman events you're doing in The Girl Gang and everything, but before that we typically start back kind of at the beginning, after college, you let us know what you were doing in the corporate world and how you, when you started to kind of get an inkling to leave that and try something else.
    Lindsey: Yeah, I am the same. I love hearing the journey that people have been on because so many of us have similar stories and I think mine is probably one of those where, I mean I grew up in the Midwest, I went to college in Wisconsin where I'm originally from, and truthfully there's, there's just not a lot of, or at least in my life, there were not a lot of examples of people building businesses or pursuing more of the entrepreneurial path. So I did. The only thing that I really knew, which was to look for a great job with a great 401k and retirement plan. And I thought I had made it. And I'm a big believer that everything in life really leads us exactly where we're supposed to go and gives us the opportunities we need.
    So the job I ended up taking was in outside sales. I was hired by a company and they moved me to Arizona. They gave me a company car and a cell phone and I thought I had made it in life. I was like, mom, don't worry about me anymore. And it didn't take me very long in that position to realize that it was not for me forever. I was hired by a flooring manufacturer to do outside sales. So the short way to say it is I sold carpet for a living commercial flooring. But it, what it did so beautifully was it really did teach me how to run a business from home because I wasn't outside sales. I got to set my own schedule. I had the taste of freedom and once you have that taste of being your own boss, quote unquote.
    I think that especially if you're wired as an entrepreneur and I didn't even know that I was, but once I got that taste I think I was like, okay, I want more of this, but I want to do something that I actually love and it was this perfect storm of being in the commercial construction industry and this was back in 2007 2008 right before the recession hit and all of a sudden I saw it in my industry, people my age getting laid off, people of my parents' age getting laid off and no new jobs. Insight. I mean we used to hold networking events called networking for those not working in our industry because it got so bad. It was like, I got to see this dream of you get a good job and you go to work and you do the whole thing. I saw that maybe that wasn't quite as secure as I was once taught to believe was just that little push to start thinking outside the box too. Create something of my own as a plan just in case I ever needed it to be a plan and in the process ended up, you know, starting my entrepreneurial journey and never looked back.
    Goli: That's incredible. And it's incredible that you see it that way because I think what a lot of times, especially in times like a major recession and especially in 2008 when you know so many people, they're losing their jobs. There are so many people who were having such a hard time finding a job. I think we're all naturally kind of wired to be fearful and scared. And I think it's so programmed in us about having the safety net that I think a lot of times it would make people double down to say, I got to hold onto whatever job I have because you know, people don't have them and I should be grateful for this. So what do you think it was that instead of making you feel like you needed to stay on that corporate ladder and you needed it to make sure that you had whatever security you can have that it actually pushed you in the opposite direction to say like, Hey, I got to build something for myself.
    Lindsey: I think it was the timing of this recession and starting to realize that, I mean, I'm sure this is no surprise to anyone that no little girl says to her parents like, I just want to sell a carpet when I grow up. That's what I want to be. There were so many things I loved about that job. I love the interaction with people. I loved solving problems, but meanwhile I was on this path of really diving into personal development and it was exposing me to new ideas. You know, reading about people who made a really great career for themselves out of something they actually loved. That course was not offered in my college. No one ever said, you know, Hey, think about something you love or a problem that you can uniquely solve and then figure out a way to make money at it.
    That just wasn't a conversation I was in. And so it was this perfect storm of the timing, you know, the recession, realizing that maybe there was more potential than I had ever stretched my mind to think about. And almost just this little question of, well, what if, what if I could do something like that? What if there's something more for me? Or I could wake up every day and genuinely love what I get to do? What would that look like? And so I just started asking myself better questions like that, which led down the whole path of starting a, my first business was in health and wellness, something that I loved. And then it's just I've continued to just ask myself that question. You know, what's next? What do I love? Where do I see a problem that maybe I have a solution to and could really help people? And that's really been the foundation of everything.
    Goli: I love that. I love that question. It seems so simple. And yet, yeah, we intend to never ask it. You know, and I think we so often do what we're supposed to do are, you know, what the secure thing or safe thing is and not really what we want and really think like what if I could create something different. And so when you started asking that question, like you were saying, you didn't even really know you had an entrepreneurial spirit, so you know, it was your first business, you hadn't done anything. How did you know how to start, you know, even that business in health and wellness. How did you know what to do next?
    Lindsey: Yeah, so the first business I started was a network marketing business. I actually still have it to this day and I'm such a huge fan of that industry. I think when done right, it is like getting your masters in business, in, in being an entrepreneur. So what was beautiful about it is it came with it, this mentorship and this culture of personal development, which now I look at, you know, entrepreneurs who do it. I mean truly the hard way, figuring it out day by day on their own who don't have a community. And a lot of that is even inspired by what I'm doing now as far as you know, building more of a community for women. But it was truly, I mean, such divine intervention because I, I don't know that I would have had number one, the tolerance for risk or even just the confidence in myself at that point to truly just create something from nothing. For me, this was the perfect baby step and it taught me everything I know that I now use. So there's a lot of different ways it can look, but there's a lot to love or hate about network marketing. I'm sure we're all on social media, so we all see it done, you know, in maybe ways that don't resonate as much with us. But I'm such a huge fan of that business model for what it can provide even just for people as a stepping stone into what they really want to do.
    Goli: I agree. And they didn't know that that's what you did. I actually love that. I've tried to really reframe the whole network marketing industry and I know that a lot of people have very strong opinions on it and I do think that sometimes the tactics can maybe not be done in the best way and so it can kind of take advantage of some people. But I think of it in the same way as you when I see a lot of people doing it. I really love seeing that.
        Lindsey: You know, stay at home moms and working people that want to try something on the side and this is giving them an opportunity to even explore. Even just put yourself out there and try something different. And I think for that it's a really great thing. It's obviously not so great when it kind of takes advantage of them, but I think if done right, it can be a really empowering tool. And I've seen it in power, a lot of people that it has given them, like you were just saying that that spark that they need to kind of go on that journey.
        Goli: Agreed. Yeah. And I know, I'm like, Oh my God, there's so many rabbit holes I could go down by now. Leave it as that for right now. Okay. So how long did you do that?
        Lindsey: So I still have that business, so I mean we've had it for nine years now. Oh wow. And I would say I transitioned into what I'm building now starting three years ago and then truly just made the full, it was interesting how, you know, my network marketing business was my side hustle for two years. Worked my full time job, became my then, you know, took that full, did network marketing for about the next four ish years and then felt the calling to really pivot again and almost worked myself into where now network marketing is again a side hustle. And it, you know, it, it really is. It's the foundation of everything I've built, but it's just not where I'm putting my time now as far as growing something. So I'll always keep it. And that is the beauty of having something like that in your business portfolio is, you know, just having the ability to create leveraged income to support the other things that you want to do.
        Goli: Right. And so how much does that typically take of your time now? Is it mostly passive or is it something that you still have to kind of work on but just on a lesser scale?
        Lindsey: It's more something that I am choosing right now not to invest a whole lot of time into. I'm actually not the best at this, but I, and I know friends who've done a much better job at setting up systems to really support them, as far as the passive income stream. And I think everyone is just so different. I learned a lot of things the hard way, you know, just about my own time and energy. I'm the type of person who I really can't, I can't do something halfway. And that's tough for me, especially when I actually still love that company. I believe wholeheartedly in their mission and I love what I'm building now. And it was almost like having to choose between a favorite child. I just had to choose because I could no longer give a hundred percent in two places. So it looks different for everyone, but it is a lot of work. Like any business, it's a lot of work and I think people downplay it and they want to make it seem like you just post on social media. But that's okay. Not the case.
        Goli: Just to be a little more concrete so that everyone knows. Can you tell us what company you were doing that for and just what that business kind of entails? So that, because I don't know, I'm sure most people know what network marketing is, but I just want to make sure that we're not talking in very generalized terms so that people understand like what your business is.
        Lindsey: That's actually a great point. So the company that I still have a business with is called Isagenix. So it's health supplements and you know, things that fall under that umbrella. So essentially if you think about network marketing is just a model where instead of paying celebrities to endorse it or stores to carry the product, it's all word of mouth and your by referral. So I like to think of it as referral marketing truthfully. So it was all health and wellness based and so you know, what I was doing when I was really, really invested in that company is I was not only coaching people in their health journey, but I was coaching people to build a business. And so that took a lot. I didn't just sit back and you know, someone went to my website and ordered a product. I was coaching, I was creating a team, creating a community, a movement. And I mean truthfully that's what I'm doing now with powerhouse women just in a little bit different way.
        Goli: Well that leads very nicely to what you're doing now. Can you tell us how that started? How did you go from doing this company in the health and wellness space to wanting to create more of a movement with women entrepreneurs or just women in general?
        Lindsey: I just love the topic of your podcast and I feel like you share the same heart as I do for telling the real version of it. Cause it's easy for people to see something on social media or you know, create a story of how successful someone else has been or maybe they don't struggle. And the truth is, I found myself about six years into that network marketing journey, you know, on the surface had achieved everything I said I wanted, you know, I got awards, I got recognition. I had been able to leave my corporate job, you know, turned in my carpet samples and you know, it was doing this full time. But I was totally unfulfilled and I wasn't unfulfilled because I was burning myself out or anything like that. I was unfulfilled because I knew that on the surface it looked like I was giving a hundred percent and created this dream life for myself.
        But I knew deep down I was maybe operating at about 70% of my potential. And the truth is I was scared. I was scared of what other people would think of me. I was still dealing with a lot of fear around am I enough, am I worthy and this interesting place to be in where you know, people would be inspired or you know, whatever. I like using air quotes like Oh it's so inspiring what you've done. And inside this little voice was like you don't understand. I'm not that great because I was really wrestling this deep down knowing there is more for me. So it was kind of like that combined with, as you know, as I'm building a network marketing business, a lot of that model is painting a vision for people for what their life could look like.
        And I love that. I love getting into conversations about big goals and dreams. Like that's my jam. And for a lot of people they would say, you know, gosh that's awesome. And I don't think network marketing is for me or your company. I, you know, health and wellness doesn't really interest me. But I've always thought this kind of business could be cool or I have this idea and so this is probably why I never was a gazillionaire in network marketing. I'd be like, okay, cool. Like set that aside. Tell me more about this idea you have. And it just got me excited to see people light up about the things they felt inspired to create to the point where, you know, I had so many of these conversations and it, there's just this common theme, especially among women, but it's not even just exclusive to us where they would say, Oh, I think this would be so cool, or I've always had this idea, and then in the next breath without skipping a beat, they would list all the reasons why they were scared.
        They didn't think they had what it took. They didn't know enough, they didn't have the resources and I realized, okay, I'm feeling all of these same things and I'm literally just being such a phony if I'm not sharing that side of it with people because that is what it feels like to build a business. I am figuring it out every day. I have no idea what I'm doing. I just know the next little step. Maybe I could try. Right. So I just started to have these feelings and then a woman approached me, she was a mutual acquaintance at that point, knew a little bit about my story and what I had built in the health and wellness realm. And she approached me about writing a book. She was an editor and publisher and she said, you know, this could be a great way to, to establish yourself as an expert in that space.
        And it was the first time I said out loud, I think I'm supposed to talk about something different. That was scary. That was uncertain because I had invested six years of my life into establishing myself in this one world. And she said, okay, well if you wrote a book, what would it be about? And I said, well no, basically told her everything I just shared with you. I see all these women with incredibly inspiring dreams and I hear their business idea and I, my first reaction is, Oh yeah, like that needs to exist. How can I support you? Why, you know, what's your next step forward in that? And just seeing other women so caught in fear, the same fear I was experiencing, like gripping fear that just paralyzed me. And that was why I wasn't playing at a hundred percent so, you know, she turned my own comment back on me cause I said, you know, I, I just think more women need to hear the other side of things.
        And she said, well, if you don't write that book, who's going to and out of my mouth, it was, you know, ready to give her all the reasons why I didn't know enough. I wasn't a writer and I just saw him. It was almost like I had this out of body experience to stop and be like, okay, like if you really want to impact people the way you're saying, then you've got to go first. Right? So I said yes to writing this book and the book was called powerhouse woman and was not a writer. I was so afraid to put anything out there. It was like the perfect thing for me to say yes to, to fully face my fears. I had accountability cause I paid money to be a part of her program and it was the first time I've ever, ever in my life, I truly said yes to something that I was so afraid of, didn't know I could be good at and I actually finished it.
        Goli: That's incredible. What an incredible accomplishment.
            Lindsey: It was pretty cool.
            Goli: I mean that whole story, there are so many things that I want to touch on and so many things that come up over and over again on this podcast, but going back to when you were saying how you were feeling even after you had spent six years in this industry and you've built up a successful business and you left your job.
            I think a lot of what you were just talking about, a lot of that fear, what it centers around and especially if you pivoted once, are you taking a risk and you've gotten to, you know, the thing that you wanted to get to and it's still feels like there's something missing or there something that's unfulfilling. I think so often we get caught up thinking well I'll never be happy. There's something wrong with me. You know, like now I have this thing I wanted and I still am not happy. So like what's to say this next thing that I'm going to try, you know, it's like maybe I just need to feel more grateful or whatever it is that we tell ourselves. And you know, we've talked a lot about this on the podcast. I love when people don't limit themselves by that and realize that, okay, even that thing that you thought was going to be great and you get there and it's not what you want. Like to have the courage to say, okay, this isn't either or, I need something in addition to this or more and go after that. So having built this business that you wanted and clearly having achieved success and you know, at a certain point did you ever feel like, well, you know, even if I chase this next thing, I'm not going to be happier. Maybe there's just something wrong with me.
            Lindsey: Yeah, that's such an interesting question and something that I think I'm now looking back and able to see some of the lessons that were learned. Sometimes if I'm too in the middle of it, I don't clearly see what was really happening and it didn't really shift for me until just earlier this year. It was almost as if energetically I gave myself permission to go all in on powerhouse women because truthfully I still thought I was superwoman and could do it all and build a thousand businesses at the same time. And I wasn't doing very well at any of that. And until I stepped back from, you know, the previous business, I don't think I could really see when I was in the middle of it, how much I had tied my identity to it to being successful and whatever that looked like financially, awards recognition.
            It wasn't like that was the main reason I was doing it cause I truly did love to help people. That was what fulfilled me deep down. But I also have this achiever side to me where I always want to be growing and learning and kind of like stretching myself further. But I was so wrapped up in it that it was just never enough. I don't know if there really would have ever been a point where it was quote unquote enough. But interestingly enough, I do believe that, you know, this new journey, it was brought into my life for a reason and everything has, has led up to that point to teach me the difference between the mentality of this hustle and grind and nonstop achievement and actually finding flow and surrender.
            And I don't know that I could see how much I was gripping every outcome so tightly and trying to control the path when I was right in the middle of it and then to step into something where when I did say yes to writing the book and then said, well, I want to plan an event around this, and then it's just grown from there. Everything I'm doing now, I don't have a playbook for, so I have to surrender it. I don't know how it's going to look and I couldn't have imagined it. So I don't know that this is the direct answer to your question, but this is my biggest lesson in it. I think I knew logically that it's not so much what we achieve, it's how we think that's going to make us feel that we're after. That's why I had that conversation all the time with people who wanted to lose weight. Okay, great. You want to lose 10 pounds, but how do you think that's going to make you feel correct? That feeling is actually available to you now. So I knew that on the surface, but I was so in the midst of this control and proving myself. I don't know who, probably just to me that I couldn't clearly that I wasn't taking my own lesson.
            Goli: Yeah, I think so many of us, I would say the vast majority of us are in that same exact position. I love that you brought that up because I think even if we tell ourselves, I mean even if not like just telling ourselves even if we do feel a certain amount of fulfillment in our career or what we're doing or let's say we pivot and we try something else, whether it's, I dunno if it's nately and acids, we've been programmed, whatever it is, there is this drive to still achieve and succeed and prove our worth and prove our success and prove how good we are at whatever it is that we're doing and that in and of itself I think often like ends up even if it's something that you love, it ends up there isn't true fulfillment in it and I'm finding the same thing as you're saying.
            I think through this podcast and through making a number of pivots myself is when you finally kind of start doing something where, you know, it's so cliche to say like it's not the destination, it's the journey, but it's the truth. When you find something where truly you're just enjoying the journey of it, like you're actually liking whether it leads to a tangible thing or not like that. You start realizing how much before you were seeking quote unquote success, you were seeking like an end result. You were seeking just some destination to say, look, I made this much or I got this award and how much when you're white knuckling it and you're not letting it just happen, like how much that affects us and how much that takes away from the joy of just living in that moment. And so I, a hundred percent relate and I have heard it so much on this podcast that, you know, even the things that we love, even when people pivot, they quit traditional careers and they try something else, they're so desperate to prove that they can be successful. At that, that they end up, I don't know, you know, that ends up not being the thing they want either, because again, it's part of the same hustle and working yourself to death and trying to get something and prove something and show something. And I feel like that's not really what we're here for.
            Lindsey: Yeah, that's so true.
            Goli: So you ended writing this book and so I mean, I've never written a book, so I can imagine that even that process, like it's one thing to say yes to that, but yeah, that must be such a grueling process because so many of us have these doubts and like self-conscious thoughts and who am I? And you know, this isn't going to be good enough. And while you're writing a book, it's such a long process to the final product. So what was that process like for you? Was it something that was daunting or was it something that you loved, kind of threw out?
            Lindsey: Oh girl, I, the best way to describe it is I literally would tell people it was the most dysfunctional relationship I've ever been in because some days, and I think it's this… With starting a business, you are so inspired and you're connected to your vision and you're just, you feel unstoppable. And I just wanted to write all day long. And then there were times where I, I was like, I need my space. Don't talk to me. Couldn't even sit down and spend time with the book. But it was everything I needed to push me past that point of discomfort cause that was the part being wired as such an achiever. And I don't know if it has anything to do with being the oldest child and a Capricorn. I don't really buy it all that so much, but I didn't like to even attempt things that I didn't know I would be great at. And it came down to control. I wanted to control the outcome and know with 100% certainty that me investing my time in this project was going to turn out favorably.
            And so you know that was the source of all of the frustration I had been feeling in my other business. It had kept me from everything, I mean if we want to really go back. It kept me from ever dedicating myself to a sport and becoming really good at it because I didn't like to show up on day one of softball and be terrible. And so I would just, you know, I would dabble in everything but never be great in anything. And it played out everywhere. And so it was the first time that I just really committed myself. Even on the days where I was terrible and there were draft upon draft upon draft that will never be published and I wasn't good at first. It wasn't like I sat down at the computer and was like, Oh my gosh, I'm like actually going to music and I am insanely proud of the end result.
            It just took me being willing to be terrible before it got better. And then even just releasing that, it will never feel finished. You can't publish a book. If you ever, I expect that it will feel complete or perfect because who I was, I started writing through this program that I had joined in like February and I finished the first draft in October and I was a different person by October so I could have gone back and rewritten the entire first half. But I just had to trust that at least that version of the book was done and actually put it out into the world. And that was actually the scariest part, the writing part, but putting it out there, it felt like an elephant sitting on your chest like goodness, someone is going to, yeah. So it was just an interesting journey to go through.
            And then I'll tell you this quick story cause it just makes me giggle and it happened perfectly for me. This was the exact lesson that I needed to be delivered and it's just such a blessing. But so what could have easily kept me from putting this project out was just that I want it to be perfect. Okay. You know, I wanted it to please everyone and not one thing. No person in the world would find it, like not great. Anyway, so I put the, you know, the book launches and it was incredible. You know, the day we launched it, it hit Amazon bestseller and the women in business category, it was like all this cool stuff happened. Awesome. And then my publisher calls and she, I'm thinking, she's calling to congratulate me. And she said, I pick up the phone and she's like, Lindsey, I'm sick to my stomach.
            And didn’t know exactly what to say. And she said, there's a typo on the cover. And it was in the subtitle. We missed it. I mean, this cover had passed through so many eyes, so many rounds of professional editing and we just missed it. But it was in that moment that it was almost like, and I do believe that God, you know, whatever you believe, I believe that, you know, everything is really for us if we choose to see it that way. And this was almost the perfect test to see if I had truly learn the lessons that that book was meant to deliver me because I could have easily in that moment allowed this one minor thing to take away all the joy that I was experiencing in that moment. And just the support to me actually, the Amazon bestseller wasn't the most impactful part of that day.
            It was seeing all these people in my life show up to support. And I could have easily allowed that to steal the joy in that moment. But I actually saw it for what it was in that I said, you know, actually this is the perfect thing to happen today because it actually tested whether or not the lesson. And I was like, great, okay then now there will be, cause you, you know, obviously we went back, we corrected it, but there's about 200 copies in the world that are now a collector's item because they have a typo in the subtitle. It was pretty profound. And I think that it showed me that my own growth in that moment, that I could just be okay and almost just laugh at the fact that that had happened because that is not the way Lindsey a year prior would have responded. I love that.
            Goli: What an absolutely beautiful way to look at it. And I think that it's beyond not just the book, you know, one of them things I really want to hit home here is that perfectionism, we all, so many of us, I think women in general, we're kind of taught from a very young age to do the things that we're good at and not do things that we're not.
            And I think so many of us, I've heard from so many women, and I'm the same where I stopped doing things, things that I loved doing because I wasn't, it wasn't going to go anywhere, quote unquote, or I wasn't going to make anything of myself from that hobby. And it's so sad looking back and I see it now even in my nieces, like how quickly they give up things because they're not the best at it. And they, you know, we were taught this ridiculous level of perfectionism. And I think especially if you're in certain traditional careers too, it gets even worse. You know, I was a lawyer and I mean your whole job is to dot your I's and cross your T's, you know, is to make sure everything is perfect.
            But I'm learning so much this journey, like how much that's just your fear of failure disguised. It just keeps you safe. You don't try anything because it can never be perfect because nothing is perfect. And the fact is that you know, I, I now subscribe to like done is better than perfect because it lets you move forward and do things and I think that's such a big lesson in that you will never do anything if you're waiting for it to be perfect. Because like you were saying, you change as a person. I'm sure that if you talk to any author, none of them think that their books, you know, even the best authors, our favorite authors would love, you know, their books. Cause we're always our worst critic. But then I do think that's what holds a lot of people back. So to be able to move on from that and say this is good enough and I'm going to release it into the world and I'm going to see what comes from it and I'm going to take the next step is such a huge step to take.
            Lindsey: Yeah. It changed everything and I think it taught me the whole thing I was missing. Right. Even circling back to the frustration and really the better word to use is restlessness that I had felt in my other business as I was leaving no room for the magic. I wasn't stretching myself to go somewhere that I couldn't clearly see the outcome. So I wasn't experiencing any miracles truly. And then I learned that by stepping into that fear, you know, it's so cliche to say, but everything you want is on the other side of fear. And I found so many things that I wanted fulfillment, making an impact or purpose, but so many fricking cool things that I couldn't have even known they weren't even on my radar.
            Goli: What's one thing that... Because I feel the same way with the podcast and I just like my back's like concrete. Like what is the one thing that you didn't expect from this journey that has just been such a wonderful addition to your life now?
            Lindsey: Okay, well I'll share the one that's like right there, super present because this actually just happened and more as a result. So the book really inspired the event. So we do a live women's event this year we're planning year three and everything kind of came full circle. And this is just, you know, another point in the whole journey. This isn't even an end point by any, but basically it put me in position to collaborate with the really the person I would say I've looked up to most in business and truly create something with her together where we're empowering the next generation of women who are going to lead this work. And that's still, just doesn't feel real. I mean she was staying at my house this weekend. Right. Imagine the person that you look up to on Instagram and you know, and have admired their journey and learned from them and gone to their events and then you're creating something with them.
            Like it just doesn't even make sense in my mind. But at the same time, what's cool about the true surrender is that it takes any significance out of the whole equation. So even when the good stuff happens, it's sort of like, this is really cool, but it doesn't define me. And then when the bad stuff happens, it's like this really sucks, but it also doesn't define me. So it's like this beautiful place in the middle where it's like life is really fun right now and I can just enjoy the moment and not worry about will I be enough for her? Do I deserve this? I'm like, Hey, this is really what a cool opportunity I'm going to lean in and just be fully me. And who knows where this will lead. I have no idea. But I mean that's just one that has come and I want people to really get, I'm only two years into this journey. Like this. The craziest stuff has happened in just two years.
            Goli: So amazing. Oh my God. Okay. I want to go get into that. But just backing up a couple steps cause I think let's get in a little more to what this event is and what it is kind of become. So you started two years ago and after you did this book, what made you decide that you wanted to get the women to send that same message with a live event in Arizona, I'm assuming?
            Lindsey: Yes. So I am based in Phoenix. I live in Phoenix, Arizona. So I wrote the book for a year. It was published in 2017 April, 2017 so when I say two years, I really kind of look at that point. And then of course the additional year in writing, but once it became public, that was really when all of this started. And it was a few months before the book was about to be published that I just started to feel, I saw, I just saw this vision of women coming together to have these real and honest conversations. And that's really where my heart is at. I'm, I'm not so much a writer. I love that I wrote a book, but I don't know if that's something I'll continue to do, you know, write more books. My heart beats for community and face to face. I just want to squeeze people like I am, I'm that type of person.
            I just, I just want people to know how loved they are. And so I saw this vision of putting women in a room and just having this honest conversation about, yeah, these are the struggles that we're all going through and guess what? We see you for who you are and can't hide anymore. Like the world needs what you got just as much as they, the world viewed what I had. So let's go. And so we started the first event. I remember just being so scared, not sure if anyone would come, I mean it was like a half day event and didn't even know what it would turn into. I think we had a hundred people come that first year and now it's evolved into, you know, into something so much bigger. Just in terms of the impact or the true intention behind it to where we really want women to know, because we hear all the time from women pursuing their big dreams that they feel alone. They feel like everyone else has it figured out and we're, we're the squad that's going to remind you that none of us know what we're doing. We're going to be really honest about that. But then also help connect women with the resources, the people and the information that they need in order to take their next step. Because I can't do it all. You can't do it all. We need each other.
            Goli: Absolutely. And how big is it now? Is it a multi-day event? What does the conference look like this year?
            Lindsey: Yeah. So we went from a half day to a full day. And for right now, just one day feels really good and we are adding a really fun kickoff party the Friday night before. And then Saturday is the full event and we're planning for about 300 women this year. So I don't know where that'll go in the future. But I love, I love the thought of keeping it kind of feeling intimate no matter how many physical people are in the room. It's really meant to feel, yeah, just not overwhelming or intimidating because we all are on our own version of the same journey.
            And what I love about even writing the book or this, and I know you had mentioned that you had, you know, the doubts of like, well, I'm not a writer and you had all these things come up. But yeah, I want people to understand that you can just make a decision that you want to try something and you can just do it. You don't need permission from anyone. There's nobody that's handing out, you know degrees and putting on an event and there's so many people now that need this kind of community and connection and...
            Goli: Oh, I just want you to speak a little bit too. You know, when you were starting this, I mean, were you thinking kind of like, I don't know. How to run an event or I've never planned an event and I don't know how to, how do you even put that together? Where do you start getting, you know, all of the panelists or whatnot. How did you kind of push past that to say like, I want to put this on and I'm going to figure it all out and I'm going to market enough to have a hundred people show up.
            Lindsey: Oh my gosh, I wish I could have just had a camera crew following me around. And I think that's the hardest part about being a few years into the journey is there's a lot of people now who, or just connecting with me or finding our podcast or whatever and they don't see what a hot mess I was even just two years ago. And I had no idea what I was doing. But you know what's funny and I find this is true for a lot of the things I'm doing now. I usually get overwhelmed when I try to see my way from point a to Z. So I have this idea for an event and then I picture the event and usually it's even that picture is kind of fuzzy. I'm like, I have no idea how. Yeah. But then I think about, well, if I did, what would be step one or what's like the one little thing I could see to do?
            And I remember at that point I was like, well, okay, since I, I've never done an event, maybe I should have someone help me. And there was this amazing spin instructor that I had taken one of her classes, loved her energy and then stopped her on social media because that's what a creep I am. And saw that she was a wedding planner and I literally messaged her, I was like, Hey, I don't know if this would be something you'd be interested in, but I want to do this event, you know, I'd love to see if it's something you could help me with. And so I went and I met her and I remember even sitting in her office and stammering through, like I had no clear vision for this. I'm sure she looked at me like you were a legit crazy person, but something that I said must have connected with her because she was like, sure, I'll help you.
            You know? And she really had me think about so many little elements that I never would have. I thought of, and you know, I think this, this is like the biggest lesson, if I can even just tie this all together with a little bow, is we have to trust that when we're feeling that inspiration to create something, yes, it's usually wrapped in fear. But if we're feeling the little nudge to do something, create something, write something that was given to us for a reason. Again, whatever your belief system is, I don't believe that God places big dreams on my heart only did not have me supported in fulfilling that. That would just be a cruel game. That's, I think the biggest thing that gets in most of our way is we see a big vision and then we buy into the belief that, well, who am I to do that?
            Who am I to put on that event? And the biggest thing that we want to instill in women, you know, our motto is we're not meant to do this alone. So I think we first of all believed the lie of who am I to do that. But then we also believe the lie that we've got to figure it out by ourselves and we're all gifted with different strengths and abilities for a reason. So I think there's a lot of like, again, it's, it's a platitude. It's a great hashtag to say like women supporting women. Yeah. But like when was the last time you actually allowed someone to contribute to you? Or when was the last time you actually got so far inside someone else's world you were like, Oh my gosh, I have a strength that could actually support you and why don't I contribute that?
            So I think we still have a lot of work to do in that realm. Like as far as collaboration goes, but, and I have a lot of work to do. I'm still learning every day. What is my zone of genius and what, but when it comes to taking on big things, like for me it was planning that event. Yes. Every single day I felt like I have no idea what I'm doing and maybe I should call this person. Maybe I should think about you know the agenda maybe what if it looked like this and don't be afraid to start right where you are and be really bad at it in the beginning.
            Goli: Absolutely. I mean these are all such great lessons because again, it just goes back to when you were saying, you know, not even when was the last time that you've contributed to someone, but when is the last time that you've just even put yourself out there, you know, to meet people, to talk to people and figure out where you can connect or where you can support someone. I think, I dunno, there's, whether it's a sense of embarrassment or we just keep to ourselves or, I mean we're also busy and I get that, but I noticed the same thing every time I go to now networking events. There's, there's just these serendipitous things that happen and you meet different people and it sparks things. And when you put yourself out there, it's incredible what can come of it. And I think you're really laying out a roadmap of how people should just kind of take action and that clarity comes from it because, you know, you could have tried this half day event and it could have yeah. Been a disaster or it could have just been okay and then maybe didn't want to do it and you do something else. But how would you have known until you did it?
            Lindsey: Yeah. And I've tried a lot of things that didn't end up being the thing. And I don't know, I am not by any means an expert in any of this and I'm still very much figuring things out as I go. But I found that what I thought I was looking for all along, what I thought success would bring me was I think deep down I thought it was confidence.
            Like just feeling really confident in who I was as a person. But what's interesting is that when I found what I thought was confidence… You know, the ultimate thing... It was actually freedom. Just freedom to fully be me, try succeed, fail, get up, do it again and just continue growing as a human. I think that is ultimately like now there's no end goal I'm trying to reach. It's just, you know what feels fun? What's bringing, you're like what's the Netflix show with Marie Kondo? What sparks joy? You know, just what really is fueling my soul. But then also what's making me a little uncomfortable. Cause that's usually where the best the prizes have come from is when I'm willing to lean into what feels uncomfortable. Right?
            Goli: Yes. And I think that's the entire point. So often we want to know what that, like you were saying, you want to know the end point. And I found the same thing that when I became the most fulfilled is when I realized, well this really is just a continuous journey and so I'll do this now and then in a year, who knows? In five years, who knows? You know, like other things will come up and I can try it and I can give myself the space to try that. Whereas before I felt like my mentality was still like, I got to find the thing and I got to become successful and I gotta do it and I got to make a lot of money and I get to show people that, you know, and it's like, now I'm like, yeah, I have no idea what I'm going to be doing two years, you know? We'll see what happens.
            Lindsey: Yeah, same. I literally have no idea what the system will look like a year from now.
            Goli: I love that. I love that. I love that it has turned into such a huge thing and that it is allowing you to meet your idols and that you are working with them. And I think again, that is just such a Testament to, you know, so many of us think that like you have to have, you know, resources or connections or you have to have been doing this for 20 years, are you, you know, when we look at a lot of people that are 10 years ahead of us and we think like I could never be that. And I love seeing people that are just like, Hey, I'm going to put myself out there and putting themselves in the arena and being with the people that they want to be with. And it's just such an inspiration to the rest of us.
            Lindsey: Yeah. Well, and I think on that note too, sharing the highlight of how the collaboration came together is one thing, but I just truly was so grateful for the work she was putting out in the world. I showed up to support and to serve at her events and to just share the work she was doing. Never expecting anything. So, you know, I think that's a whole other conversation for a whole other day. Just even putting yourself in position to really collaborate on a high level with people who are killing it. It starts with the humblest of beginnings and I think that's so tough for a lot of people too. So really embody I see it all the time and it's been the same for me. It's like you want to get to where they are and you just want to hit fast forward and get there.
            But you know, we each have to go through our own journey and do the work and sometimes just show up again and again and again with no recognition. Like I've taken the garbage out at more events that I've spoken at and that's, that's part of it, right? It's like, it's part of it is just serving the overall purpose and knowing that if your intent is pure, if you have a vision to serve others, you will get your opportunity. And you just got to keep getting, getting yourself out there and around people who are doing the kind of work that you want to do.
            Goli: Yeah. So can you tell us who it is or is that like a secret?
            Lindsey: Oh yeah. No, it's not a secret. Her name is Lori Harder and she's got an event of her own called the bliss project. And then we haven't fully announced this yet, so, but we probably will by the time your this episode lunches were, we're going to be creating something really cool. Four, really the next generation of women who want to lead that kind of work. So transformational workshops, masterminds, retreats live events like we both do. It'll be a combination of all of those cause it really is one in the same. But while it's going to be focused on events, what we're going to be giving people our playbook on how we run our businesses, who's on our teams. Really just helping people avoid some of the pitfalls that you've made because there's more people who need inspiration, transformation, you know, who need to learn these skills, then we can never serve on our own. So again, just kind of taking that collaboration piece to the next level cause there's more than enough for all of us.
            Goli: I love that. And where can people follow along there find you if they want to know more about these events and get involved?
                Lindsey: I think a lot of us are on social media these days, so I love to hang out on Instagram. My personal Instagram is just Lindsey Schwartz. There's an extra L at the beginning because apparently there's a lot of Lindsey Schwartz on the interwebs and then there are communities and events you can find. And our podcast is all just called powerhouse women. And on Instagram it's just powerhouse underscore women and all of our websites, et cetera, are linked to there too. So that's probably the best place.
                Goli: Wonderful. I will link all those in the show notes in case people can't write it down. Lindsey, thank you so much for joining us. This was so inspiring and so much fun.
                Lindsey: Oh my goodness. I just really enjoyed every minute of talking to you and I can't wait to just learn more about everything you're doing.
                Goli: Thank you so much. How inspiring is Lindsey? I loved talking to her and here are my three takeaways. One, no one knows what they're doing and we don't have to do it alone. I love that she kept repeating that she has no idea what she's doing. I say this all the time, if you call it on my Instagram, because I know on social media it can look like people have it all together and the reality is that no one really knows what they're doing. We're all just figuring it out one step at a time, making mistakes, pivoting and moving forward. So just take that first step and you don't have to do it alone. So find people to connect with, find people that you can pour into and that you can lean on when you need something. Two fulfillment doesn't come from controlling the outcome and forcing some kind of arbitrary success. It comes from giving yourself the time and space to do the things that you want to do and the things that are a little bit scary. It comes from pushing yourself out of your comfort zone and seeing what happens. And three, I think about the limitations that you're arguing for. So often we talk about our dreams and then come up with all the reasons why we can't do it. Think about where you're doing that in your life
                Because that's typically the thing that you should be doing most. And with that, I hope you liked this episode. I will see you next time. Thank you so much for listening. I can't tell you how much it means to me. If you liked the podcast, please rate and review us on iTunes. It'll help other people find the show. If you want to connect or reach out, follow along on Instagram and Facebook at lessons from a quitter and on Twitter at Twitter podcast. I would love to hear from you guys and I'll see you on the next episode.